Cyber Willard

a cyberdeck discussion of "the divine conspiracy"

Wednesday, February 04, 2004

W.2 ts 

I need to apologize for being the slack one in the group. It seems that my life continues to be a whirlwind of events and emotions.

Why do Christians look more and more like the world? Are we trying to reach people where they are or are we simply not living the righteous life? If we are to be apart of God's Kingdom, shouldn't there be an obvious difference? Our lives, through Christ, should be made to look more and more like Christ. As Willard says, we are invited to make a pilgrimage into the heart and life of God.


posted by Tim  # 10:23 PM
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W.2 dp What about me? 

As I try to apply the same "Willardian" examination criteria to my own personal motives, I wonder just how much of my (our) desire for something better in terms of "kingdom living" is wrapped up in the quote on page 54 which says that "...people can do or be anything they want if they just go ahead and do it?" "Desire becomes sacred." Are even good desires bad if they have become sacred? (i.e. John Eldridge, Journey to Desire)
posted by David   # 3:33 PM
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W.2 gwill 

I'm going to go ahead and play into Dr. Willard's hand. I'm going to ask the questions he begs the reader to ask, and that (I think) he is going to try to answer as the book unfolds. So, it will be interesting to see if our efforts to answer now synchronzie with his answers as they develop. [This is what good teachers want students to do, anyway, right Rod?]

1. If the Kingdom of God (and the concept of salvation) is not primarily about sin management, then what?
2. If we took seriously Jesus' role as our Teacher in how to live life, what then?
posted by Greg  # 11:35 AM
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W.2 rl, the unruly poster 

I’m sorry I won’t continue to post these outlandish long posts. Guys, I don’t know how to say this without sounding strangely arrogant, or snotty, or some word I can’t think of. Usually books like this open my eyes to things I’d never noticed or thought of and my world is changed. This one though is just affirming specific familiar things that have been playing in my head and heart for several years. I’m worried that saying this sounds like I think I could think on the level with Dr. Willard. I don’t mean that at all. Its just that I’ve been in a strange position to observe Christianity 24/7 for about 6 years and I have observed things that just haven’t made sense. There is no way I could set down these things the way Dr. Willard has. But for some reason, I see them everyday, and unfortunately, God has caused me to take notice. Now I feel like I can refer to Willard’s book and maybe someone will begin to understand what I’m freaking out about. So far these two chapters have finally been saying what has been weighing on my heart for a LONG time. Remember a couple weeks ago when I started reading Ch. 1 I mentioned experiencing déjà vu? The more I read the more I hear it. At times these things seem so obvious that as I read, I think, ‘yeah, yeah, yeah’. Other times, I’m so excited to hear someone verbalize my thoughts…
In the next few chapters, no doubt he’ll go past my experience and begin to speak over my head.
So here is my terribly arrogant thought and question. When someone is given the ability to see that there is more than they’ve been told, that the point is not what they’ve been told the point is, that we’ve polarized ourselves right out of any kind of healthy balance - to what human being placed upon this earth to disciple an idiot like me, do I go to find out how to develop these thoughts, to sate the saudade, to get in line with God’s intentions?
I think I know the answer. I thank God for our community of seekers. I pray that the cyber worm holes of our web portals will allow us to grow closer to God and a deeper understanding of what He wants us to be.
We should be aware that upon reading this book, the stakes are going to sky rocket. Our level of accountability is raised. We are responsible for more than before.
Please forgive me this early departure from the rules of engagement. I won’t let it happen again.

posted by Rod  # 11:27 AM
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W.2 cisco 

here's my take: "heaven-is-the-goal-theology" places little emphasis on this life now. "liberation-theology" does little to help transform people's spiritual lives. "eternal-life-now-theology", thus, includes heaven as a natural and eventual given but defines salvation much more broadly, placing priority on the present eternal-ness of God's kingdom now.

Q(s): could we then see Jesus's Kingdom-living as a synthesis of the "right" and "left," or is it something completely different? also, is church tradition and historical christianity as empty of Kingdom-talk as the last generations have been?
posted by chris  # 8:20 AM
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